This is a guest post from our friend Zach Zipfel. He’s been an inspiration to us to continue speaking up about the bondage of religious traditions that have enslaved so many. Enjoy his insights!
“Before I begin, please understand, I am not attacking anyone, I’m not trying to discourage anyone, I’m not boasting. All I’m trying to do is change the way you think, and the way you judge your relationship with God.
Did you know, the presence of God can actually become an idol?
People, especially in the charismatic and pentecostal streams, view God’s presence as the “it”.
People tend to live from feelings rather than faith…
Feelings are not bad, it’s fun to actually feel God’s glory and His presence, no doubt, the few times I have it was amazing.
But to tell you the truth, I haven’t had those “drop to the floor in awe and shake uncontrollably encounters with God.” I expect to sometime, but it has yet to happen. And I know there are many people who live this way as well. They’ve never experienced God’s presence, or at least that level of it.
Through all this, people build up this idea, that if you aren’t having these experiences and living in that area with God all the time, than you’re a sinner, or God doesn’t care, or maybe He’s abandoned you.
None of this is true.
See, I myself used to feel like that, I felt like something in me is broken. Maybe God didn’t care about me or whatever.
But I started noticing that not everyone experiences God’s presence, so I started asking God questions of why, and listening to people like Joseph Prince, and Dan Mohler, and Todd White who all talk about living by faith.
Let’s define faith:
“Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.”
- Heb. 11:1
It’s believing, and TRUSTING, beyond circumstance and feelings. Believing also means “being 100% convinced.”
It takes renewing of the mind (Rom. 12:1-2), reprogramming your thoughts…having FAITH, that God loves you is being totally convinced that God is always there, He’ll never leave you, nor forsake you, as Jesus PROMISED (Matthew 28:20).
For those who live out of feelings, I know it’s fun to experience God’s presence, but what would you do, if you woke up one morning, and the [sense of His] presence was gone?
Well, if you’re one of the millions of Christians in the Charismatic movement, you’d probably think you’d done something wrong, or committed some sin. Let me assure you, God is still there, and He won’t ever leave, there’s nothing you can do to drive God away.
He might be teaching you to live from faith. For me, as I said before, I never lived out of that place in feelings.
But only recently I’ve gotten to that place in faith that I’m perfectly fine that I don’t experience the presence, it just gives me resolve of knowing that, I’m perfect, I have faith that God is right here, He lives inside me, I’ll never lose Him, He’ll never leave me.
Just learn how to think, remind yourself that God is there, spend time resting in His thoughts for you. It’s about a relationship, not about a feeling.
I’m now 100% convinced God loves me. It’s taken me time. God has had to break mindsets out of me, thinking that if I wasn’t falling on the floor that I was broken, or there was a big secret I was missing, but nope. I was just idolizing someone else, and building up an idol of what the Christian life should be like.
God loves you, and you don’t have to be flailing around, laughing hysterically on the floor. It’s about resting in His love for you, knowing you are in UNENDING UNION, uninterrupted oneness, union, communion with Him (1 Cor. 6:17).
Don’t build an idol out of drunkenness, laughing, etc. Just because someone tells you something, that’s not how it is all the time. It’s Love, joy, peace and knowing that He loves you.
It takes building up of faith, and so enjoy the times of not feeling His presence, as much as you do the times of being totally knocked out by His presence. But feelings of it are not what we build upon.
“The devil lives in the realm of feelings, God lives in the realm of faith.” – Joseph Prince
Remember He loves you, so when you’re feeling down, speak up and declare God’s love and favor over you, because you are His son/daughter.”
I am not sure who wrote this or where it originated, but I had to share it.
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“Everyone in the apartment complex I lived in knew who Ugly was. Ugly was the resident tomcat.
Ugly loved three things in this world: fighting, eating garbage, and shall we say, love.
The combination of these things combined with a life spent outside had their effect on Ugly.
To start with, he had only one eye, and where the other should have been was a gaping hole. He was also missing his ear on the same side, his left foot has appeared to have been badly broken at one time, and had healed at an unnatural angle, making him look like he was always turning the corner. His tail has long since been lost, leaving only the smallest stub, which he would constantly jerk and twitch. Ugly would have been a dark gray tabby striped-type, except for the sores covering his head, neck, even his shoulders with thick, yellowing scabs.
Every time someone saw Ugly there was the same reaction: “That’s one UGLY cat!!”
All the children were warned not to touch him, the adults threw rocks at him, hosed him down, squirted him when he tried to come in their homes, or shut his paws in the door when he would not leave.
Ugly always had the same reaction. If you turned the hose on him, he would stand there, getting soaked until you gave up and quit. If you threw things at him, he would curl his lanky body around feet in forgiveness. Whenever he spied children, he would come running meowing frantically and bump his head against their hands, begging for their love. If you ever picked him up he would immediately begin suckling on your shirt, earrings, whatever he could find.
One day Ugly shared his love with the neighbors huskies. They did not respond kindly, and Ugly was badly mauled. From my apartment I could hear his screams, and I tried to rush to his aid. By the time I got to where he was laying, it was apparent Ugly’s sad life was almost at an end.
Ugly lay in a wet circle, his back legs and lower back twisted grossly out of shape, a gaping tear in the white strip of fur that ran down his front. As I picked him up and tried to carry him home I could hear him wheezing and gasping, and could feel him struggling. I must be hurting him terribly I thought.
Then I felt a familiar tugging, sucking sensation on my ear – Ugly, in so much pain, suffering and obviously dying was trying to suckle my ear. I pulled him closer to me, and he bumped the palm of my hand with his head, then he turned his one golden eye towards me, and I could hear the distinct sound of purring. Even in the greatest pain, that ugly battled-scarred cat was asking only for a little affection, perhaps some compassion.
At that moment I thought Ugly was the most beautiful, loving creature I had ever seen. Never once did he try to bite or scratch me, or even try to get away from me, or struggle in any way. Ugly just looked up at me completely trusting in me to relieve his pain.
Ugly died in my arms before I could get inside, but I sat and held him for a long time afterwards, thinking about how one scarred, deformed little stray could so alter my opinion about what it means to have true pureness of spirit, to love so totally and truly.
Ugly taught me more about giving and compassion than a thousand books, lectures, or talk show specials ever could, and for that I will always be thankful. He had been scarred on the outside, but I was scarred on the inside, and it was time for me to move on and learn to love truly and deeply.
To give my all to those I cared for.”
—
This is a repost from a friend of ours in New Zealand, Paul Currie.
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“I have now met several good Christian folk, mostly younger, some students, who have been hurt, and to some degree had been confused about “HOW” they ended up being labelled as dishnouring, divisive or rebellious. They are mostly the listeners or direct subjects of a few ministries that have caught on to a man-made docrine that has become popular, has reached New Zealand and and many other parts of the world, and does more damage to younger Christians by the words or actions it deliberately does not mention during the delivery of it’s voiced topics, the craft of insinuation via silent messaging.
What did dishonour look like for Jesus in his day?
Jesus spoke very clearly on the occasion where he was being dishonoured. There was a people group primarily made up of the Pharisees who attempted to trap him with their crafty words. Jesus mention of dishonour is recorded in John 8:49 “I am not possessed by a demon, said Jesus, but I honour my Father and you dishonour me”.
Are such things really happening in churches today?
What degree of dishonour, abuse and carnality is actually occurring in churches today? It is certainly not happening in mine. What about yours? It must be happening somewhere, right?
If so, wherever it is ocurring, I would ask if the leadership of that place is following Matthew 18:15-17. I would also ask if there is an effective discipleship course that teaches newly born’s biblical precepts of conduct. I would also ask if there is a culture in place that promotes ‘leading by example’, and in that, being effective in promoting the ways of love and respect by offering it to the body in the first place.
If not, what are these ‘other allegedly bad’ behaviours which necessitate some elders of some churches to aggressively and repetitively deliver doctrines in blanket form from a pulpit about honouring, and by doing so, causing many to fear that they are surrounded by or personally involved with dishonouring? The principle of building a culture of honour sounds great, but the underlying methods and many of its applications as seen at large are not being administered in love at all, but with an unspoken accusation that such offence exists.
But wherever such offensive does exist, in the verse I pointed out above Jesus himself set out clear instructions for those who have genuine cases of sin:
Matthew 18:15-17:
If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Clearly, if any person in the church believes his brother has sinned against him, by way of alleged dishonour, or by any other way, the above is to be followed.
If Jesus own teaching is not being followed to address offence, and an alternative teaching has arisen to replace it, it is the doctrine of a man. And what disposition or alleged behaviour between members of Christ’s Body does such a man’s doctrine seek to control or mediate that Jesus’ own teaching didn’t sufficiently cover?
So what exactly are these ‘other allegedly sinful’ actions that pastors of today label as ‘dishonourable’? First let’s have a brief look at what honour is not.
- Honour does NOT mean ‘submission’ to a church elder because of his title, his position, the debt he holds against you, or his knowledge of your past sin.
. - Honour is NOT ‘obedience’ to what a man says on the basis that others fear to disobey him.
. - Honour is NOT ‘compromising the truth’ you know exists in the word to agree with the preacher just because others like whatever he is saying.
. - Honour is NOT allowing man-made doctrines or distortions of the word of God to go unquestioned for the sake of making its cultivators feel honoured or safe.
. - Honour is NOT ‘sitting quietly’ when you know that something is being taught that is against or does not line up with what Jesus taught and did.
. - Honour is NOT deliberately ‘failing to defend’ lies or untruths or misleading fabrications just because your pastor or favourite preacher supports them.
Later we will look at what honour is. But first, let’s put some questions up for your own thinking.
- Is the practice of confronting an error being described as dishonourable divisive or or rebellious?
. - Is the practice of confronting mindsets and traditions that keep people in bondage being described as dishonourable divisive or rebellious?
. - Is the practice of asking questions when you believe that something is being taught that does not line up with what Jesus taught being described as dishonourable divisive or rebellious?
If you say yes to any of these statements, then I believe these pastors are teaching more on an“honour and obey this institution without questioning it’s doctrine” basis.
The repetitive ‘honour and obey’ talk established behavioural precepts reserved primarily for describing relational dynamics for a child toward its parent.
It originated from God through the prophets of old, was confirmed by Jesus’ own teaching in his day, and referred to again by the writings of the apostles of his time.
Exodus 20:12 – Honour your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
Deuteronomy 5:16 – Honour your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
Matthew 19:19 – honour your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbour as yourself.’
Ephesians 6:2 – Honour your father and mother— which is the first commandment with a promise—
All other instructions on how to conduct yourself in relationships refer primarily to the values of respect and love, eg Relationship dynamics brother to brother
Jesus never walked around saying “fear me” or “fear one another” or “honour me”. He didn’t need to. Conversely, he said in John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another”.
1 Peter 2:17 - Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honour the king.
Philippians 2:28-30 - Therefore I am all the more eager to send him, so that when you see him again you may be glad and I may have less anxiety. Welcome him in the Lord with great joy, and honour men like him, because he almost died for the work of Christ, risking his life to make up for the help you could not give me.
Romans 13:7 - Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honour, then honour.
Romans 13:8 - Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellow-man has fulfilled the law.
Romans 12:10 - Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honour one another above yourselves
Relationship dynamics toward elders
1 Timothy 5:17 - The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honour, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.
1 Peter 2:17 - Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honour the king.
Isaiah 26:13 - O LORD, our God, other lords besides you have ruled over us, but your name alone do we honour. (It is NOT for a pastor or elder that we should esteem with the honour we reserve for the Lord)
Other relationship dynamics are also made clear in 1 Timothy 5.
Now let’s look for a moment at the basic relationship between a teacher and a student, and then come back to the honour theme from a scriptural perspective.
It is a student’s place to ask questions; it is a teachers role to answer them. A student will usually ask a question to get more clarification on a matter of teaching that he has not grasped, desires to learn more about, has been confused by, or notices that the teachers comments conflict with the information written in the student handbook he’s holding.
The relationship of a student and his teacher is completely the same for a disciple and his teacher (or an apostle / prophet / evangelist or pastor of God who teaches)
Disciples are not accusers, they are students, and they ask questions so they can learn from their teachers. Any leader of any church institution who resists or refuses to answer a disciple’s questions about doctrine is not fit to be called an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher, and are exposing themselves to be in error by labelling their flock as divisive, rebels or accusers.
Coming under, or agreeing with a man made doctrine of honour that is being used as a mechanism to manipulate a group of students into feeling guilty for their act of presenting a question to ‘any given teaching’ will never justify any fear-mongering assertion from any leadership member of any church institution whatsoever claiming dishonour comes in the form of questioning doctrine.
If it is deemed dishonourable or divisive to raise questions, cultish behaviour has most certainly given birth.
What might drive a person to act defensively and propogate doctrines which impute error to anyone who questions their beliefs?
For any church elder to go down this path where it has not first been established that there truly exists an outward rebellious carnal behaviour, it is quite likely that he or she either feels inadequate to give answer, unable to understand what they actually just preached, is in fear that his doctrine may just be a bunch of beliefs handed down over the years, or was a bunch of law-based nonsense aimed at controlling finance or loyalty, or perhaps feels offended to be questioned because of his high position, or believes that he lacks the honour he deserves, and none of those positions should justify engaging a weapon of man-made doctrine against disciples to force them to give it to him. If from out of his character were flowing Godly precepts, God himself will assure this man get the honour his actions deserve.
God promises to take care of making sure He himself will honour us if we manifest mature and Godly precepts
John 12:26 - Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honour the one who serves me.
Psalm 91:15 - He will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honour him.
Psalm 84:11 - For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favour and honour; no good thing does he withholdfrom those whose walk is blameless.
Proverbs 13:18 - He who ignores discipline comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds correction is honoured.
Proverbs 29:23 - A man’s pride brings him low, but a man of lowly spirit gains honour.
Proverbs 15:33 - The fear of the LORD teaches a man wisdom, and humility comes before honour.
Proverbs 18:12 - Before his downfall a man’s heart is proud, but humility comes before honour.
Therefore, unless we are in pride, walking with a low self-esteem, or feel we lack the honour we believe we should expect, we do not ever have a need or directive from God to demand it from man, milk it out of man, or craft a doctrine to force it out of men by falsely accusing them of acting dishonourably toward us.
Moreover, is it not clear from Proverbs 15:33 and 18:12 that anyone professing to serve the Lord should be operating firstly in humility, which the Lord himself says comes BEFORE honour?
He actually warns us that we should NOT seek it for ourselves:
Matthew 6:2 - So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honoured by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
Proverbs 25:27 - It is not good to eat too much honey, nor is it honourable to seek one’s own honour.
Habakkuk 1:7 - They are a feared and dreaded people; they are a law to themselves and promote their own honour.
John 8:54 - Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
John 7:18 - He who speaks on his own does so to gain honour for himself, but he who works for the honour of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.
Are there any consequences for falsely accusing disciples of being divisive or rebellious for asking questions?
If the absence of obedience to conduct church affairs the way Jesus taught in Matthew 18:15-17 leads a pastor down a path of repeatedly addressing an entire congregation with honour and obey talk, without naming an offender, or taking all the other steps Jesus taught, does that person stand at risk of guilt for laying out a blanket accusation against the entire body of Christ present on that day?
Can we not just love one another, which in itself is one of the most comprehensive and all-encompassing commands of our Lord?
Out of it will come respect where earned, care, generosity, humility then honour, esteem, gratefulness, gentleness, and every other fruit of love.”
- The Blueprint of “Renewing Your Mind” 11/24/2011 Brandon
- Decisions that Define Us – Graham Cooke 11/23/2011 Brandon
- Incomplete Vs. Complete Forgiveness 11/25/2011
- 20 Rob Rufus Quotes On Law vs. Grace 11/23/2011
- Organic Church Introduction 01/30/2012
- Dead to Sin and Alive to God! 11/10/2011
- Five Ways Jesus Revealed Grace 02/01/2012
- Do Everything Jesus Said? 01/29/2012
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